HOF finalists announced
On the heels of the Michael Irvin story.
The HOF announced the 25 finalists. I figured this would be a good place to air out my opinions
Troy Aikman - QB - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys (Should be in. A proven winning QB and an MVP.)
Harry Carson - LB - 1976-1988 New York Giants (Maybe. But not this year)
Dermontti Dawson - C - 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers (Solid player, but not a top 5 at his position)
Fred Dean - DE - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers. (Revolutionized the DE position as a pass rusher. But most of his stats came before sacks became an offical stat in the NFL recordbooks in 1982)
Richard Dent - DE - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles (I think Dent is a HOF player. This is not his year with Reggie White in the same class of finalists)
Randy Gradishar - LB - 1974-1983 Denver Broncos (Sorry Train. Outside of Denver, Gradishar was just seen as a good player, not HOF)
L. C. Greenwood - DE - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers (Will fail to make the hall due to "Too many Steelers")
Russ Grimm - G - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins. (Possible. One of the mainstays for the Hogs, plus a good coach with the Steelers now)
Ray Guy - P - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders. (Punting is part of the game. Ray guy is the best. Put him in)
Lester Hayes - CB - 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders (With Stickum 30+ INT's...without 10. )
Claude Humphrey - DE - 1968-1974, 1976-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (Never got to see much of his palying days)
Michael Irvin - WR - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys. (Stats would say Yes. But his votes this year will sway to Monk or Reed due to off the field problems)
Bob Kuechenberg - G - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (Vote for Bob. A solid Guard that deserves alot of credit for Miami's success in the 70's and 80's)
Art Modell - Owner - 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens (Yes. But not this year. I just dont like Art)
Art Monk - WR - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles. (This man at one time owned the NFL record for most receptions in a career, in a season, and consecutive games with a reception. He is a HOF and I cannot speak stronger about anyone more deserving. Redskin fan or not)
Warren Moon - QB - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs (Pro footballs most prolific QB. And since the CFL is Pro Football, He is a surefire HOF)
Andre Reed - WR -1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins (4 straight super Bowls and the career stats to back it up. This is a no brainer)
Ken Stabler - QB - 1970-1979 Oakland Raiders, 1980-1981 Houston Oilers, 1982-1984 New Orleans Saints (I dont think the Snake will make it. Too many years as a backup, 1 super bowl win and not enough stats. He and aikman are similiar except Aikman was always a starter and has the 3 super bowls)
Derrick Thomas - LB - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs. (Great player with good stats. May not have been a HOF however will get sympathy consideration that will push him into the hall)
Thurman Thomas - RB - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins (See Andre Reed. They will both get in, but not at the same time)
Roger Wehrli - CB - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals (Good CB, but has been on the ballot for a long time. If he hasnt been voted in yet probably wont go)
Reggie White - DE/DT - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers (Best DE in history is a first ballot HOF. I would have liked to have seen his speech.)
Ralph Wilson, Jr. - Owner - 1959-current Buffalo Bills (He'll go in as a pioneer of the old AFL, but not this year)
George Young - GM/Administrator - 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-1978 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League (I think he goes in this year)
Gary Zimmerman - T - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos (May get in during a year with a weaker class)
So my Final vote for this years class
George Young, Ray Guy, Art Monk, Reggie White, Warren Moon
The HOF announced the 25 finalists. I figured this would be a good place to air out my opinions
Troy Aikman - QB - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys (Should be in. A proven winning QB and an MVP.)
Harry Carson - LB - 1976-1988 New York Giants (Maybe. But not this year)
Dermontti Dawson - C - 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers (Solid player, but not a top 5 at his position)
Fred Dean - DE - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers. (Revolutionized the DE position as a pass rusher. But most of his stats came before sacks became an offical stat in the NFL recordbooks in 1982)
Richard Dent - DE - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles (I think Dent is a HOF player. This is not his year with Reggie White in the same class of finalists)
Randy Gradishar - LB - 1974-1983 Denver Broncos (Sorry Train. Outside of Denver, Gradishar was just seen as a good player, not HOF)
L. C. Greenwood - DE - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers (Will fail to make the hall due to "Too many Steelers")
Russ Grimm - G - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins. (Possible. One of the mainstays for the Hogs, plus a good coach with the Steelers now)
Ray Guy - P - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders. (Punting is part of the game. Ray guy is the best. Put him in)
Lester Hayes - CB - 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders (With Stickum 30+ INT's...without 10. )
Claude Humphrey - DE - 1968-1974, 1976-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (Never got to see much of his palying days)
Michael Irvin - WR - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys. (Stats would say Yes. But his votes this year will sway to Monk or Reed due to off the field problems)
Bob Kuechenberg - G - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (Vote for Bob. A solid Guard that deserves alot of credit for Miami's success in the 70's and 80's)
Art Modell - Owner - 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens (Yes. But not this year. I just dont like Art)
Art Monk - WR - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles. (This man at one time owned the NFL record for most receptions in a career, in a season, and consecutive games with a reception. He is a HOF and I cannot speak stronger about anyone more deserving. Redskin fan or not)
Warren Moon - QB - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs (Pro footballs most prolific QB. And since the CFL is Pro Football, He is a surefire HOF)
Andre Reed - WR -1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins (4 straight super Bowls and the career stats to back it up. This is a no brainer)
Ken Stabler - QB - 1970-1979 Oakland Raiders, 1980-1981 Houston Oilers, 1982-1984 New Orleans Saints (I dont think the Snake will make it. Too many years as a backup, 1 super bowl win and not enough stats. He and aikman are similiar except Aikman was always a starter and has the 3 super bowls)
Derrick Thomas - LB - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs. (Great player with good stats. May not have been a HOF however will get sympathy consideration that will push him into the hall)
Thurman Thomas - RB - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins (See Andre Reed. They will both get in, but not at the same time)
Roger Wehrli - CB - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals (Good CB, but has been on the ballot for a long time. If he hasnt been voted in yet probably wont go)
Reggie White - DE/DT - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers (Best DE in history is a first ballot HOF. I would have liked to have seen his speech.)
Ralph Wilson, Jr. - Owner - 1959-current Buffalo Bills (He'll go in as a pioneer of the old AFL, but not this year)
George Young - GM/Administrator - 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-1978 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League (I think he goes in this year)
Gary Zimmerman - T - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos (May get in during a year with a weaker class)
So my Final vote for this years class
George Young, Ray Guy, Art Monk, Reggie White, Warren Moon
posted by Goose at 1:02 PM
11 Comments:
Not having the experience of seeing about half of these guys during there playing days: I'm going to agree with G. Young because of longevity and influence (NFL loves that kind of stuff)...Art Monk on a short list of Redskins' that Jimbo respects (Darrell Green is #1 FYI) and definitely is 1st ballot material...Reggie, nothing really needs to be said here, he's the equivalent of E. Smith in 3 years...now the last two:
Ray Guy: I only see it because the Hall likes diversity, and P would give you that, however: I see at least 8 more influencial players, but if you go by the ultimate test, was this player in the top3 of their position for 5 years or more? the answer is definitely yes, but what takes away is the position...does Reggie Roby get consideration and what about Gary Anderson? Vinatteri? I think this should be a separate HOF sort of like an annex down the road in Columbus or something: I'd like to see A. Reed in this spot and that's saying something coming from me
W.Moon...look, I'm just playing devil's advocate, and had Goose put another QB's name in here (including Aikman) I'd be making the argument for Moon, but instead I have to go with the opposite...the Hall likes winners: Bradshaw, Montana, Simms if he's in...I don't believe any ever led the league in statistacal categories except completion percentage and all were first ballot HOF's...
why you say?...winning: Marino is the only exception to this rule, and that's because there's no possible way to ignore them...now with Moon, the lack of winning will definitly hurt, that and never playing in a major market and what I consider to be a bias HOF committee to ex-Huskies...I think if you transfer his CFL stats at .85 cents to the $1, this is a no brainer and as it is now, it's close, I think he gets in eventually, but not this year:
my prediction--> Aikman, for the same reason T. Brady is 1st ballot ahead of P. Manning right now
I'd vote Warren Moon, Art Monk, Reggie White, Derrick Thomas & Rudy Gay. In that order. They all dominated their positions when they played, and the punter gets in last because, well, he's a punter.
Jimbo, I agree with your assumption that Aikman will get voted in. I just don't agree. I think he's similar to the Snake... and you dismissed his vote. Just putting that out there. I'll try and get some stats to back up my point in a minute.
It still amazes me that R. Gradishar is still on the ballot. The man’s only hall of anything is in the Denver Ring of Fame. He should be happy with that. Hey, he still can get a drink for free anywhere in the Mile High City.
My Top 5 players
1: Troy Aikman – he just won and played for arguable the best team of the 90’s.
2: Art Monk – He wrote the record book. You can’t deny someone who did that.
3: Reggie White – Simply the best at his position
4: Derrick Thomas – Sack Master who gets in do to his untimely death.
5: Thurman Thomas: Dominate rusher of the ‘90’s, someone you could go to in the clutch (unless he forgot his helmet)
Guy won’t get in do to the dreaded punter bias. Irvin because he is the stupidest man on the planet. Harry Carson – because he was overshadowed by LT. Andre Reed gets in next year along with Warren Moon.
Jimbo. I agree the Hall likes winners and Aikman will be in the HOF in the next three years.
Like Marino, Moon statistically is head and shoulders above other QB's. We are talking (Just NFL) Pass attempts: 4th
Completions: 4th
Passing yards:
4th Passing TDs: 5th.
291 TD's to 233 INT's
Plus add in 5 Grey cup victories in Canada and an additional passing yds in the CFL. Including his CFL stats, Moon passed for over 70,000 yards
in comparison. Aikman
Pass attempts: 18th
Completions: 12th
Passing yards: 20th
Passing TDs: 47th
165TD's to 141 INT's
But add in 3 Superbowls and an MVP. Those top 20 numbers should get you a HOF plaque. Just not this year. I think Moon goes 1st
And in case you were wondering
Kenny Stabler
Pass attempts: 40th
Completions: 35th
Passing yards: 37th
Passing TDs: 33rd
194 TD's to 222 INT's
Not quite HOF numbers
Joe...here's a little Snake vs. Aikman foggy mountain breakdown:
the fact that Troy led a team to 3 SB should not be ignored...I understand that football is the ultimate team sport, but there's a reason that good teams w/ bad qb's don't make it to the SB(Eagles before last year), or never win a SB (Bills)...the fact that Aikman has 3 SB appearances to Stablers 1 and that he has an MVP from one...is the burden of proof right there...is Aikman a Level 1 HOF QB (not saying that), what I am saying is that if we go on the criterea that has been used for past inductees than Aikman should be a 1st or 2nd ballot HOF QB...
Ken Stabler finished with 28 more int's than TD's and one SB appearance along with about half the playoff appearances, is he a HOF QB? I don't know, my opinion is no, if he is than I think you open the door for Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner(I just spit milk out of my mouth with that one) and a whole group of others...
The difficulty with Aikman was that he was a smart QB that was given some incredible gifts, but I doubt that J. George or other highly touted QB's at the time would've been willing to work within the systeam as well as Aikman did...if the term Team QB can be applied than that is what we're talking about...and Joe you're flat wrong...that being said I still think Moon was a better QB, but winning trumps all arguments
I knew that comment would ruffle some feathers. Damn, I love sport. True passion lives in sport. PASSIONE!!!
I'm still pissed about sitting through Jose Cortez and Billy Cuntlick...MY TEAM SHOULD BE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT FOR HOME FIELD!!!!so I'm umm easly riled...but thanks for raising the blood pressure Joe...I like Joe 2.0...actually starting to bring something to Lodge
I can't wait for Joe 2.O after the Honeymoon. He will have no excuse.
No excuse for what?
No excuse for not bringin "IT" Joe.
Jeez do we need to draw it in crayon for you?
I like lamp.
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