Thursday, December 15, 2005

Curious Guy: College vs. Pro

OH, IT’S ON! You are about to get served, Jimbo. Nice work with the time stamp, by the way. Couldn’t have updated the story to the top of the queue, eh? Apparently not. To preface, I’m going to preface each section with an Anchorman quote. Because the movie (and its second disk, an entire movie full of deleted scenes cut into an actual 2nd plot) are so full of quotable quotes it’s almost not fair.


“We need you. Hell, I need you. I'm a mess without you! I miss you so damn much. I miss being with you, I miss being near you. I miss your laugh. I miss your scent; I miss your musk. When this all gets sorted out, I think you and me should get an apartment together!”

Champ Kind bringing the drama in expressing missing Ron Burgundy leads us to your mention of the drama of March Madness. But the drama of the professional leagues playoffs has the same tradition and excitement that fans love about March Madness. Yes, I must admit that the greed of the professional sports leagues has turned each of the leagues (MLB, NBA & NFL only, since hockey isn’t an American sport & the MLS sucks compared to the foreign futbol leagues, but that’s another column) playoffs waaaaay too long. They each take about a month to finish & have way too many days between games to stretch out TV coverage for money-making devices. That said, people tune in because of the heightened playoff atmospheres each sport brings. We all remember Lynn Swann’s SB catches, Jeter being in the right place at the right time almost every October & MJ hitting 3’s from all over the court over Portland – because these moments are singed into our brains where the clutch performers bring it when it counts.


“That's the smell of desire my lady.”

Brian Fantana’s not-so-sweet smelling quote goes out to your argument about the college co-eds that the college experience brings. This is something I don’t have much to argue. No man can argue against the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders though. Pro Sports have that. Plus, the NFL also brought us the greatest cheerleader girl-on-girl bathroom incident ever to be in print earlier this year.

Also, we need to mention the names in Anchorman while we are here. Will Ferrell and Adam McKay must have spent hours debating over what fake names were the funniest, and we are all winners from that work put in for comedy’s sake. When your rival anchor is named, Wes Mantooth (Thanks for the 70's history lesson, Goose), you just need to pay respect to comic genius.


“I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly...”

Ron Burgundy drinking on the set before (and on air) going live intro’s my comeback to your paragraph about college sports bringing classic moments like Cheney’s turtle-like resemblance and classic quotes. But come on! Pro Sports have as much, if not more, classic quotes than college can ever bring. Just profiling Jim Mora or Dick Vermeil alone in the NFL would make a solid argument.


“I'm proud of you fellas. You all kept your head on a swivel, and that's what you gotta do when you find yourself in a vicious cock fight.”

After the news-team brawl in the alley, Burgundy reflects on the teams performance in the fight. And you fight when you are loyal. Jimbo, you next mentioned loyalty (which I brought up during our first go around) of college athletics. And I think this is where demographics and where you grew up comes into play. If you are from Tennessee, chances are you bleed Orange & think the SEC is the greatest conference ever no questions asked. That is because for a while (until the Oilers moved there), the Vols were the only thing going there. So my point is that college loyalty has many other factors that add to your so-called “loyalty”.


“They've done studies, you know. Sixty percent of the time it works every time.”

Okay, we are halfway done, so bear with me. You next mentioned Video Games in passing, claiming that NCAA Football ’06 was the best sports game ever. Brian Fantana’s math in his follow-up description of Sex Panther leads me to some statistics of my own. I’m partial to the Madden franchise. I’d also like to point out that on 2004’s sales (2005 will come out after the new year) linked below, there are 3 NFL games in the top 10, 1 NBA game and no college games listed. An interesting statistic.


“I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.”

Money. You had to bring up money. Guys in contract years & agents the likes of Scott Boras don’t make sport fun, I would have to agree with you on that. But let’s not forget that the NCAA is not without sin & boosters have helped out college programs since the turn of the century. Countless programs have been sanctioned and will continue to get sanctioned after cheating and getting caught (or not caught).


“I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker.”

You got a random quote in, so that’s mine. My favorite quote from Anchorman.


“You're so wise. You're like a miniature Buddha, covered with hair.”

Rivalries are in all sports. Hell, competition and rivalry even stretch into work or family board games. You can’t tell me that college rivalries are any more special than RedSox-Yankees, ManU-Arsenal, Celtics-Lakers or Cowboys-Redskins. When the Skins beat the Boys, you feel it as much, if not more than when the Cougs miraculously take down the Dawgs in the Apple Cup.

I’ll leave you with Brian Fantana’s response to Champ’s rant about Ron (previously quoted): “Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you stop talking for a while.” Jimbo, you might want to sit the next couple of plays out.

19 Comments:

Blogger Casey said...

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

I'll admit...I'm not the biggest sports guy you'll meet. I really like sports, but the only ones I really follow closely are the NFL and MLB.
Which brings me to this: I don't get the big deal about College Football. I don't really watch it, and I'm not really a fan of it. To me, College football is like watching Minor league baseball. Sure, it can be kind of interesting to see future stars develop, but is it worth rabidly following? Not to me.
If I'm going to watch a sport, I want to see the best of the best. I'm not interesting in seeing an ameteur league.
I mean really...what's the big deal?

>insert gasps of horror here<

Thu Dec 15, 09:50:00 AM PST  
Blogger Unknown said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thu Dec 15, 09:55:00 AM PST  
Blogger Unknown said...

Jayne, you are a smartest man with a woman's name that I know. That is my biggest fault against the college vs. pro argument. The talent level and level of play is just superior on the professional level, which makes it a much more fun event to watch.

That said, I decided to go fun with my reply to Jimbo instead of ripping college athletics, so we'll see how it goes.

Thu Dec 15, 09:56:00 AM PST  
Blogger Train said...

Joe, do you think you could have gone with a slightly less Metro picture of yourself?

That being said I have to say I liked your retort. I am very torn on this subject I think that both of you guys have valid arguments. I’ve seen both sides of the spectrum while growing up in a rabid sports town these were my formidable years mind you. It might have been just the right setting for me when my collective conscience woke up around 1986 to witness the greatness of John Elway, Sammy Winder, Steve Watson, Simon Fletcher and Karl Mecklenburg and the talents of Sal Anesse, Darrian Hagen and Eric Bienemy. I watched Alex English and Doug Moe in the pros and Fennis Dembo in college just to name a few people. What I am getting at is you have to put the two entities in there place and interpret them as you see fit. You can love both warts and all. One is not better then the other. I have the Drive and I have the Miracle at Michigan. Both teams left it all on the field and a classic game was played out before my eyes. I didn’t worry about who was a free agent or if someone was going to get traded or if we would get put on sanctions I just watched the players and the potential I saw in both. To me pros and college are intertwined forever. One feeds the other and they both feed the city/state they are in. Passion and pageantry in College and Greatness and immortality in the pros, essentially the same thing just one gets a bust in Canton the other in the Athletic Club in NY.

Sports is just sports…..Like Manny being Manny we don’t question why we just watch our team live or die from week to week.

Thu Dec 15, 10:38:00 AM PST  
Blogger Goose said...

In order to understand the concept of passion and pagentry, you have to go back to 1980. The Olympics in Lake Placid. USA over Russia.

The Olympics lost their luster when they began using Pro Teams. There is something about the loyalty of being part of a college, part of that family, and rooting your school against a rival. Cougs Huskies. Arizona/Arizona state. Oak and Buckets.

There is (and yes I know that money has corrupted alot of college sports) an innocence in amateur sports that is stripped when the athlete turns pro. I can explain it...you just have to feel it.

Thu Dec 15, 11:15:00 AM PST  
Blogger Train said...

I love the Lake Placid Analogy Goose. Pretty much sums up the Amatuer sports theory in one sentence But I do love my Raiders Broncos rivalry to go along with my Buffs Huskers rivalry. I know it sit on the fence here but I am just a sports fan but if i had to choose to go to the Super Bowl or to the Rose Bowl I would choose the Rose becuase your right you just have to feel it.

Thu Dec 15, 11:22:00 AM PST  
Blogger Jimbo said...

Train...good comments, and I agree to a point...and Jimbo at age 12-13 would've definitely agreed...but, as I get older and the more life effects my entertainment and my enjoyment...when other elements effect the way a player plays other than his desire to win, that's when I turn into a synical curmudgeon...

Let's talk about level of competetion: and I feel another theoritical diatribe coming:

* to me, I do not view the college talent as inferior to the professional game, I view talent in terms of competition, and if we look at competition then I think you'll see that it is all relative

* if team (a) and team (b) play to a 20-17 game that ends in overtime, the result is that this was a highly competitive regardless of the arbitrary level of talent...I think the important factor in any sporting event is the competitive element...not being a fan...case in point:

--US Olympic Hockey Team 1980, if you go by level of talent, then this team was not even supposed to be in the Olympics...the attendance and acclaim occured because of the competitive nature of the games, played by amateurs...would you say, by your pro-bias Joe 2.0 that the NHL players at the time would've competed at a higher level?

--another example is the bottom tier of every league especially the NFL...is a game between the Jets and Texans really better played man for man than USC vs. Texas?...and what's the competitive factor with Jets vs. Texans?

*what I'm trying to get at is this, to me, level of talent is a relative factor...I don't see a superior level of talent in all team on the Professional level, perhaps this could be accomplished through contraction of every sport (seriously, this needs to happen) or the abolition of private owners and allow the league to run each franchise with equal salaries (dream land)...wow really rambling now...going to stop

Thu Dec 15, 11:26:00 AM PST  
Blogger Jimbo said...

I just want you to know that I wrote the 1980 analogy w/o looking at Mr. Goose's post...don't want to get into copyright infringement...

Thu Dec 15, 11:28:00 AM PST  
Blogger Unknown said...

Although I think Mother Goose made a great point with the Olympics (even though the debate was College vs. Pro Althletics), I wouldn't have a comment whether or not NHL players at the time would've competed at a higher level -- since I don't regard the NHL as a major American sport, or even simply an American sport.

You keep nailing down your point about the "level of talent" when I value the "level of play" as a better indicator of the quality of experience. And the level of play is always higher at the professional level. You can go down the list of shite Heisman winners and see the proof.

Thu Dec 15, 12:03:00 PM PST  
Blogger Train said...

Jimmy, nor am I 12 years old but I am just trying to say to a fault maybe that sports on any level has its problems and you bring up some great points about level of talent but I still don’t think one is better than the other. It is apples to oranges. I love the competition on the field. That’s when I become 12 years old again and that is what sports are about no matter what level or outside influences. I worry about the media, agents, sanctions, recruiting drug arrests tues-Fri, Sat and Sun are reserved for the pageantry.

Maybe I’m just not as cynical as you.

Thu Dec 15, 12:34:00 PM PST  
Blogger Casey said...

College Ball is kind of lame...'nuff said!

Thu Dec 15, 12:51:00 PM PST  
Blogger Goose said...

Heisman Winners? Joe. The Heisman trophy is not awarded to the "Best Pro Prosfect" or the "Best Athlete"..It is awarded to the Best College Player for the specific year.

Thu Dec 15, 12:59:00 PM PST  
Blogger Jimbo said...

yes...yes...yes...

Joe: level of play or level of talent...a 99-95 game of college basketball is an extremely high level of play and talent...I just don't see that the separation is all that great...like watching Greg Kinnear and Aaron Eckhart try and dominante a film...there both pro's, level of competition relatively the same? I think that was a non-sequitor? anyway

MCP: you're out of your element

Train: I am far more cynical than you, but you are a better speller

Goose: the Outland Trophy might be the most underrated award in all of sport...and the Lou Graza the most overrated...

Thu Dec 15, 01:38:00 PM PST  
Blogger Casey said...

The China man is not the issue Walter!

Thu Dec 15, 02:04:00 PM PST  
Blogger Casey said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thu Dec 15, 02:04:00 PM PST  
Blogger Jimbo said...

I'd like to thank the lodge for setting a record for commenting today: 15 is pretty good (16) now...good work...drinks on the house tonight...except you Dude...

Thu Dec 15, 03:26:00 PM PST  
Blogger The Dude said...

“We need you. Hell, I need you. I'm a mess without you! I miss you so damn much. I miss being with you, I miss being near you. I miss your laugh. I miss your scent; I miss your musk. When this all gets sorted out, I think you and me should get an apartment together!”

I use this line on Meghan whenever I get in trouble. It works everytime! Anyways, I think the bottom line difference is Money. It's in the forefront of college, players playin' to get that big contract. Where as in the pros, most of them have their big money so the passion isn't there. College sports has passion, they are all playin' for the possibility of a big contract or a chance at the next level.

Money taints everything. Money is the reason why some college sports are not so good, like Baseball, or Hockey. The potential drafting someone out of high school totally ruins the game. So should we say that High school is more competitive than college...just a thought...sorry for the late post, I had no internet yesterday fellas...

Fri Dec 16, 08:31:00 AM PST  
Blogger Jimbo said...

I'd agree somewhat with the money angle, however what's the percentage of college athletes that go on have professional contracts in athletics...I'd have to say off the top of my head it has to be under 10% if not lower...

Fri Dec 16, 10:19:00 AM PST  
Blogger Unknown said...

Dude, that's awesome about Meghan being a sucker for the Anchorman quotes. It's a fine line that probably shouldn't be overused, kinda like a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

But speaking of that quote, I know I mentioned the 2nd movie made from deleted scenes in the post -- but it's definitely worth a viewing, if not solely for the most uncomfortably hilarious dialogue when the Channel 4 News Team is in Brian Fantana's station wagon driving:

[Ron, Brian, Champ and Brick drive to the observatory]
Champ Kind: I love you, Ron.
[pause]
Champ Kind: I said I love you, Ron.
[pause]
Champ Kind: Why is everyone ignoring me? I love you, Ron! And I think we should adopt a child together in Vermont! Answer me!
Ron Burgundy: Um... so... uh... the... the car's running great.
Brian Fantana: Hm? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah...

And it continues from there... just trust me and watch it.

Fri Dec 16, 02:21:00 PM PST  

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